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There are plenty of things you can shit on AI art for
But it is neither badly approximately, nor can a student produce such work in less than a minute.
This feels like the other end of the extreme of the tech bros
To me, this feels similar to when photography became a thing.
Realism paintings took a dive. Did photos capture realism? Yes. Did it take the same amount of time and training? Hell no.
I think it will come down to what the specific consumer wants. If you want fast, you use AI. If you want the human-made aspect, you go with a manual artist. Do you prefer fast turnover, or do you prefer sentiment and effort? Do you prefer pieces from people who master their craft, or from AI?
I’m not even sorry about this. They are not the exact same, and I’m sick of people saying that AI are and handcrafted art are the exact same. Even if you argue that it takes time to finesse prompts, I can practically promise you that the amount of time between being able to create the two art methods will be drastic. Both may have their place, but they will never be the exact same.
It’s the difference between a hand-knitted sweater from someone who had done it their entire life to a sweater from Walmart. It’s a hand crafted table from an expert vs something you get from ikea.
Yes, both fill the boxes, but they are still not the exact same product. They each have their place.
On the other hand, I won’t commend the hours required to master the method as if they’re the same. AI also usually doesn’t have to factor in materials, training, hourly rate, etc.
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Is English your second language?
Or was this comment by an AI?
Which, mine or theirs?
Shampoo_bottle
Is it that obvious?
No, actually not at all.
I only ask because if English is your second language then your repetition with “other end of the extreme of the tech bros” makes sense. Your mistake is one that many English-as-first-language writers make.
That’s all, I didn’t mean to make you feel self-conscious.
That is perfectly valid English. You can use the word “the” twice in a sentence.
Of the of the
The gutting of the humanities and other things generally written off as “frivolous” kind of terrified me. There’s something that feels distinctly wrong about these attempts at destroying and anyone that even might turn an introspective gaze on society itself. Like they don’t want anything that might foster self-awareness accessible to the layman.
Tech bros are not really techie themselves as they are really just Wall Street bros with tech as their product. Most claim they can code, but if they were coders they would be coding. They are not coders, they are businessmen through and through.who just happen to sell tech.
Most claim they can code, but if they were coders they would be coding
I dislike techbros as much as you, but this isn’t really a valid statement.
I can code, but I can’t sell a crypto scam to millions of rubes.
If I could, why would I waste my time writing code?
Many techbros are likely “good enough” coders who have better marketing skills and used their tech knowledge to leverage into business instead.
That is the thing though. The real talented tech people tend to be more in the weeds of the tech and get great enjoyment from that. The “tech bros” are more into groups, people, social structures, manipulation, controlling and such and would go crossed eyed if they really had to code something complex as they could never sit that long and concentrate. These are not these same people. Tech bros want you to think they are tech gurus as that is their brand, but it is a lie.
99% of people in tech leadership are just regurgitating marketing jargon with minimal understanding of the underlying tech.
This is 100% correct. It can overlap but honestly as someone going into embedded systems I despise tech bros.
Tech bros are idiots who greatly overestimate their own intelligence .
Humanities students are well-rounded individuals with a healthy sense of self-worth.
AI is going to destroy art the same way Photoshop, or photography, or pre-made tubes of paints, destroyed art. It’s a tool, it helps people take the idea in their head and put it in the world. And it lowers the barrier to entry, now you don’t need years of practice in drawing technique to bring your ideas to life, you just need ideas.
If AI gets to a point that it can give us creative, original, art that sparks emotion in novel ways…well we probably also made a super intelligent AI and our list of problems is much different than today.
As someone who’s absolutely terrible at drawing, but enjoys photography and generally creativity, having AI tools to generate my own art is opening up a whole different avenue for me to scratch my creative itch.
I’ve got a technical background, so figuring out the tools and modifying them for my purposes has been a lot more fun than practice drawing.This is the perfect use case.
Photoshop didn’t destroy jobs forever, all it did was shift how people worked AND actually created work and different types of work.
As someone who’s absolutely terrible at drawing
Then practice. Nearly no artist was born knowing how to draw or paint, we dedicated countless hours to learn what works and what doesn’t.
As a musician, I couldn’t agree more. Talent really helps with initial aptitude, but will peter out when challenged. That’s when real skill development begins. Time and investment connecting you to your craft until there’s nothing in the world between the two, that’s self actualization.
But that’s not fun for them. You get really good at things you like to do.
It feels like you didn’t read the 2nd half of their comment. They do practice. They have a creative side that they want to explore, but they don’t enjoy that sort of grind. Instead, they like tinkering and combining tools in interesting ways. I don’t think this is a bad thing.
Leo Fender didn’t play guitar and always wished that he’d sit down and devoted the time, but never actually enjoyed it. But to say that Leo didn’t contribute to the music world, would be insane.
I’ve only dabbled a bit with ML art, and I am by no means an artist, but it doesn’t scratch that itch for me the same way that drawing or doing stuff in blender does. It doesn’t really feel like I’m watching my vision slowly take shape, no matter how precise I make the prompt. It kinda just feels like what it is, a transformer iterating over some random noise.
I’m also a very technical person, and for years I was stuck in that same mindset of “I’m a technical guy, I’m not cut out for art”. I was only able to get out of this slump thanks to some of my art friends, who were really helpful in pointing me in the right direction.
Learning to draw isn’t the easiest thing in the world, and trust me I’m probably as bad at it as you are, but it’s fun, and it feels satisfying.
I agree that AI has a place as another artistic medium, but I also feel like it can become a trap for people like me who think they don’t have an artistic bone in their body.
If you do feel like getting back into drawing, then as a fellow technical person I’d recommend learning blender first. It taught me some of the skills I also use in drawing, like perspective, shading, and splitting complex objects into simpler shapes. It’s also just plain fun.
I think the way I use AI is fundamentally different from how most people draw. For me it’s much more like I’m exploring what’s possible, while making creative decisions on the direction to explore. I don’t start with anything in particular in mind. In a lot of ways it helps with the choice paralysis I get when faced with completely open-ended things like art.
i like the idea of AI as a tool artists can use, but that’s not a capitalist’s viewpoint, unfortunately. they will try to replace people.
Some people also doesn’t care if there is a Rembrandt or a Picasso or an AI but like to dabble in the arts anyways because it’s something they like to do.
It’s fulfilling (I do love Renoir though).
And if text-based images remain uninspired and samey… oh well? Congratulations, you will foreverafter be able to spot when someone’s extremely timely gag image was cranked out via its description, rather than badly composited from Google Images results. I’ve done a lot of bad compositing for Something Awful shitpost threads and speed beats effort every time.
This. AI was never made for the sole purpose of creating art or beating humans in chess. Doing so are just side quests for the real stuff.
What do you think the “real stuff” is?
I hate this sentiment. It’s not a tool like a brush is to a canvas. It’s a machine that runs off the fuel of our creative achievements. The sheer amount of pro AI shit I read from this place just makes me that closer to putting a bullet in my fucking skull
Once you reincarnate in the future, generative models will make even better art than they do today. It’ll be a losing battle against time.
Shill
Luddite
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Downvoted for truth. Too bad for them this isn’t reddit
An art major’s half asleep doodles can receive copyright protection whereas an image created by a million dollar supercomputer running the most sophisticated AI model possible cannot.
Extremely rare artist x lawyer crossover to dunk on the AI bros.
Honestly people are trying to desperately to automate physical labor to. The problem is the machines don’t understand the context of their work which can cause problems. All the work of AI is a result of trying to make a machine that can. The art and humanities is more a side project
The problem is the machines don’t understand the context of their work which can cause problems. All the work of AI is a result of trying to make a machine that can.
I am deeply confused by this statement.
A robot that assembles cars does not need to “understand” anything about what it’s doing. It just needs to make the same motions with its welding torch over and over again for eternity. And it does that job pretty well.
Further, neural networks as they stand cannot truly understand anything. All classification networks know how to do is point at stuff and say “That’s a car/traffic light/cancer cell”, and all generation networks know how to do is parrot. Any halfway decent teacher will tell you that memorizing and understanding are completely different things.
No but a robot that does the dishes needs to know how to know what a dish is and how to clean all different types and what’s not a dish. The complexity of behavior needed to automate human tasks that cannot be done by a assembly line robot is immense. Most manual labor jobs are still manual labor because they are too full of unknowns and nuances for a simple logic diagram to be of any use. So yes some robots need to understand what’s going on
And as for parroting vs remembering current LLMs are very limited in the capacity of creating new things but they can create novel things bash smashing together their training data. Think about it, that’s all humans are too. A result of our training data. If I took away every single one of your sense since the day you where born and removed your ability to remember anything you wouldn’t be very intelligent either. With no inputs youcould produce no outputs other than gibberish which an AI can do to. ( And I mean ALL senses you have no form of connection with the outside world )
My dish washing robot doesn’t need to know anything. It does depend on me loading it, and putting the more heat affected stuff on the top shelf
Yes it depends on you loading it, doesn’t always get all the dishes done, and will melt your dishes if they are heat sensitive. All this because it doesn’t understand the task at hand. If it did it could, put them away for you, load them, ensure all dishes are spotless, and hand wash heat sensitive dishes.
Right. That’s why making cars is already automated. But a robot that digs ditches needs to understand context because no two ditches are the same.
The problem is they didn’t focus research this tech, or try to make image generators specifically, it was an scientific discovery coming from emulating how brains work and then it worked wonders in these fields
Which is why STEM is so cool. Because one is dedicated to an interaction with physical reality, which exists outside the mind, novelty can arise unexpectedly from a simple and honest conversation with deep structures nobody knows about.
STEM is cool because it involves discovery. The fact that amazing things can exist without anyone being (yet) aware of them makes it an open and unpredictable undertaking.
Nothing wrong in automating tasks that previously needed human labour. I would much rather sit back and chill, and let automation do my bidding
If only the people in control of the wealth would let the rest of us chill while the machines do all the labor.
that’s a social problem, not technology’s fault.
It’s a psychological problem. I chill quite a bit more than most people in history, and in ways people from twenty years ago couldn’t imagine.
I say it’s a psychological problem because despite how overwhelmingly incredible our society is, people are totally committed to this notion that it sucks.
I love my life. I’d rather be low on the economic ladder in today’s world than anywhere in the hierarchy of any previous incarnation of our civilization. Our world is absolutely fucking amazing, and I thank god I have the presence of mind to see past the anti-everything propaganda and actually have a little gratitude for all I’ve inherited from my ancestors, who actually suffered miserable conditions to give me this world.
Yeah if only I didn’t have to farm food all day, and worry about the constant gnawing of my empty stomach, and the predators at my door, then I could maybe sit and watch some netflix or play video games, listen to concerts that took place fifty years ago, or just soak in a hot tub of water, our horrible society keeps all that leisure for the most wealthy.
The art and humanities is more a side project
I’ll add:
A side project that isn’t a life or death situation like most of those physical labor things you’re talking about. Art isn’t also bound or constrain by rules and regulations like those jobs and if the AI fails at art then there’s no problem. Nobody would care.
Besides, if it fails at art it might even create something we never thought
this is fundamentally the opposite of what generative AI does. its fail state is basically regurgitating its training data intact.
you kidding? that’s its success state
So… art is essentially failing ahaha.
With style!
Yeah pretty much. I think. I am no art connoisseur though. If I see pretty drawings or images or whatever, I like.
If you think arts and humanities are useless, you probably lack an imagination.
Like completely.
I won’t say you’re useless, because simple minded grunts are needed.
Humanity wouldn’t exist without the arts.
Ah yes “the arts”. Definitely the point of humanities, and nothing to do with categorizing the world into “important people” and “simple minded grunts”.
Humanities students don’t read these days, and it shows.
“Art” as a term is so all-encompassing that it’s hard to define what is and isn’t art.
I’m sure you can rustle up some very reductive few word definition, but the most popular ones go something like “the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination”, and that’s a very broad definition, wouldn’t you agree?
I’m sure you’d also agree there just are some people who never seem to express or apply any of their creative skill or imagination (and some who genuinely seem to lack any altogether), despite still being productive members or society.
Not everyone needs to be an artist, a minority of the population will do, but without artists, we would all perish. As those people who don’t necessarily express or apply creative skill or imagination, still most certainly enjoy it, and probably couldn’t get through their jobs without it. (Repetitive work is just so much easier while listening to music, and I’m sure that’s not a controversial statement.)
So what do humanities students do these days then, according to you, since they “don’t read”?
The arts isn’t about art. Graduates of an arts degree are not generally artists
Yes, arts as a university subject is more looking into artists and their work and what it meant/means for everyone/other people.
I was never suggesting “arts” in universities are hand-painting lessons, was I?
I am a writer with two novels in progress and I’m into photography. I consider myself pretty creative.
Arts and humanities are useless.
AI art tools democratize art by empowering those who weren’t born with the affinity, talent or privilege to become artists themselves. They allow regular people the freedom of expression in new dimensions. They are amazing.
They are not made to replace human art. They are made to supplement it. The “artists” who feel threatened and offended at its existence are probably not very good at their art.
I work in AI. LLM’s are cool and all, but I think it’s all mostly hype at this stage. While some jobs will be lost (voice work, content creation) my true belief is that we’ll see two increases:
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The release of productivity tools that use LLM’s to help automate or guide menial tasks.
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The failure of businesses that try to replicate skilled labour using AI.
In order to stop point two, I would love to see people and lawmakers really crack down on AI replacing jobs, and regulating the process of replacing job roles with AI until they can sufficiently replace a person. If, for example, someone cracks self-driving vehicles then it should be the responsibility of owning companies and the government to provide training and compensation to allow everyone being “replaced” to find new work. This isn’t just to stop people from suffering, but to stop the idiot companies that’ll sack their entire HR department, automate it via AI, and then get sued into oblivion because it discriminated against someone.
I’ve also heard it’s true that as far as we can figure, we’ve basically reached the limit on certain aspects of LLMs already. Basically, LLMs need a FUCK ton of data to be good. And we’ve already pumped them full of the entire internet so all we can do now is marginally improve these algorithms that we barely understand how they work. Think about that, the entire Internet isnt enough to successfully train LLMs.
LLMs have taken some jobs already (like audio transcription, basic copyediting, and aspects of programming), we’re just waiting for the industries to catch up. But we’ll need to wait for a paradigm shift before they start producing pictures and books or doing complex technical jobs with few enough hallucinations that we can successfully replace people.
The (really, really, really) big problem with the internet is that so much of it is garbage data. The number of false and misleading claims spread endlessly on the internet is huge. To rule those beliefs out of the data set, you need something that can grasp the nuances of published, peer-reviewed data that is deliberately misleading propaganda, and fringe conspiracy nuts that believe the Earth is controlled by lizards with planes, and only a spritz bottle full of vinegar can defeat them, and everything in between.
There is no person, book, journal, website, newspaper, university, or government that has reliably produced good, consistent help on questions of science, religion, popular lies, unpopular truths, programming, human behavior, economic models, and many, many other things that continuously have an influence on our understanding of the world.
We can’t build an LLM that won’t consistently be wrong until we can stop being consistently wrong.
My own personal belief is very close to what you’ve said. It’s a technology that isn’t new, but had been assumed to not be as good as compositional models because it would cost a fuck-ton to build and would result in dangerous hallucinations. It turns out that both are still true, but people don’t particularly care. I also believe that one of the reasons why ChatGPT has performed so well compared to other LLM initiatives is because there is a huge amount of stolen data that would get OpenAI in a LOT of trouble.
IMO, the real breakthroughs will be in academia. Now that LLM’s are popular again, we’ll see more research into how they can be better utilised.
Afaik open ai got their training data from basically a free resource that they just had to request access to. They didn’t think much about it along with everyone else. No one could have predicted that it would be that valuable until after the fact where in retrospect it seems obvious.
I sincerely doubt AI voice over will out perform human actors in the next 100 years in any metric, including cost or time savings.
Not sure why you’re downvoted, but this is already happening. There was a story a few days ago of a long-time BBC voice-over artist that lost their gig. There have also been several stories of VA workers being handed contracts that allow the reuse of their voice for AI purposes.
The artist you’re referring to is Sara Poyzer - https://m.imdb.com/name/nm1528342/ - she was replaced in one specific way:
The BBC is making a documentary about someone (as yet unknown), who is dying and has lost the ability to speak. Poyzer was on pencil (like standby, hold the date - but not confirmed).to narrate the dying person’s words. Instead they contracted an AI agency to use AI to mimic the dying persons voice (from when they could still speak).
It would likely be cheaper and easier to hire an impressionist, or Ms Poyzer herself but I assume they are doing it for the “novelty” value, and with the blessing of the terminally ill person.
For that reason I think my point still stands, they have made the work harder and more expensive, and created a negative PR storm - all problems created by AI and not solved by.
You are incorrect that AI voice contracts are common place, as SAG negotiated that use of AI voice tools is to be compensated as if the actor recorded the lines themselves - which most actors do from home nowadays, so again it’s at best the same cost for an inferior product - but actually more expensive because you were paying just the actor, but now you’re paying the actor AND the AI techs.
edit: and not just that, AI voice products are bad. Yes, you can maybe fudge the uncanny Valley a bit by sculpting the prompts and the script to edge towards short sentences, delivered in a monotone, narrating an emotionless description without caring about stress patterns or emphasis, meter, inflection or caesura, and without any breathing sounds (sometimes a positive sometimes a negative) - but that’s all in an actors wheelhouse for free.
UBI is better and has more momentum with the general public
Nah fuck HR, they’re the shield of the companies to discriminate withing margins from behind
I think the proper route is a labor replacement tax to fund retraining and replacement pensions
I would love to see people and lawmakers really crack down on AI replacing jobs
Why stop there, let’s crack down on electricity replacing jobs!
Are you saying that if a company adopts AI to replace a job, they should have to help the replaced workers find new work? Sounds like something one can loophole by cutting the department for totally unrelated reasons before coincidentally realizing that they can have AI do that work, which they totally didn’t think of before firing people.
That’s why it would need regulation to work…
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Art itself isn’t useless it’s just incredibly replicable. There is so much good art out there that people don’t need to consume crap.
It’s like saying there is no money in being a footballer. Of course there is loads of money in being a footballer. But most people that play football don’t make any money.
This is a good analogy
Pretty sure whoever wrote the meme is talking about essay writing in Arts/Humanities, (not the disciplines where you draw and paint etc which are Fine Arts and are not Faculty of Arts in an academic context.
I think approximation is the right word here. It’s pretty cool and all and I’m looking forward how it will develop. But it’s mostly a fun toy.
I’m stoked for the moment the tech bros understand, that an AI is way better at doing their job than it is at creating art.
tech bros jobs is to wrote bad javascript and fall for scam, this AI already beaten
It’s bad at anything useful for programming too.
And the things it’s good at have been developed by stealing GPL/copyleft code.
I think one thing you and many other people misunderstand is that the image generation aspect of AI is a sideshow, both in use and in intent.
The ability to generate images from text based prompts is basically a side effect of the ability that they are actually spending billions on, which is object detection.
So you’re happy to see AI take someone else’s job as long as it isn’t taking your job.
Taking the jobs of the people responsible for creating it seems preferable to taking others’ jobs.
That comment was very Reddit of you. Don’t do that, please.
You’d rather cheer for people to lose their jobs without anyone calling you out on it, sure.
Keep assuming. Fuel your own rage. I tried. Now I’m out. Good night and goodbye.
You said tech bros will realize it’s easier to replace their jobs than those of creatives. Who is included in “tech bros” here? I wanted a job in tech and can’t get one partly because of AI. Am I a tech bro? I would be very careful what you imply here.
All three of you are insufferable
I am insufferable for wanting a job? I am not the one inventing these AIs. Nor am I the one firing people because they exist.
When people talk about “tech bros” without clarifying who they mean I can only imagine they are including people like me.
I’m not the angry one wishing unemployment on my “enemies” here.
I think they’re using AI to say the same sentence over and over again.
He’s saying the same thing because he’s not actually getting a proper response. The other guy just keeps saying shit like “That’s very reddit of you” or some shit after possibly threatening his job.
Less work being done by anyone is better. Thinking it’s bad that work is done for us by robots is the brain worms talking.
Indeed. Ideally AI would do every job, so that humans can focus on just doing what we want to do. It’d be like the whole species getting to retire.
You’d rather cheer for people to lose their jobs without anyone calling you out on it, sure.
I’m not the angry one wishing unemployment on my “enemies” here.
Who are you?
What do you want?
The ideal endpoint is to eliminate the concept of “jobs” entirely. Why should people have to work?
Okay. So why are you breaking that guy’s balls, over automating away jobs, which you don’t want to exist?
Because currently we do need jobs. Otherwise why is he upset about AI in the first place?
Run on, sentence.
No, it uses appropriate coordinating conjunctions. A run on sentence isn’t just one that’s long.
That’s also not a long sentence. It’s a normal sentence presented in a narrow column format.
Some bad course cope right here don’t let the philosophy grads see this
Billions were spent inventing and producing the calculator device.
Human calculators are now extinct.
Complex calculations are far more accessible.
This has a secondary effect of making average people incapable of estimation in their heads. Hopefully in the future people won’t be incapable of writing and art.
The entire point behind the much maligned New Math is to teach approximate solutions that you can do quickly in your head. It’s the realization that if you want an exact answer, use a calculator, but quick head estimates are still useful.
It was opposed by generations who were told to memorize multiplication tables because they wouldn’t always have a calculator available.
Well you should memorize those anyway. It’s useful all your life for easy calculation. If you want 7 items and they cost $3.50 each, it’s between $21 and $28.
I check on the calculator I have with me at all times. It’s $24.50
I calculated it in my head without memorising all the multiplication tables. I just realised that 7*3.5 is equal to (7*5+7*2)/2. And that 49/2 is equal to 40/2+9/2. Easy peasy. This is why I failed second grade math, because multiplication tables are only useful for doing operations a few seconds faster.
There’s a much easier way.
7x3.5 is the same as 7x3 plus half of 7. That’s 21 plus 3.5 is 24.5
The funny thing is you did this for the division when you could do it for the entire thing.
Yeah but that doesn’t work when you need it most on “The Price is Right”.
Average people weren’t doing complex math in their head back when human calculators were a thing.
But they were estimating things. Somehow illiterate people ran marketplaces for thousands of years.
