Palestine has the right to exist.
deleted by creator
I’m for Palestine and their right to self defense and have their land back from Israeli robbers, but:
-
Before they were fighting to have their land back. Now they have to fight not to be genocided
-
On past conflicts, they always lost much more than Israel
-
Israel is military much more powerful
How can Hamas have thought that the situation would improve, even if Palestinians deserve freedom?
I’m coming to the sad conclusion that indeed Palestine will disappear, like the indigenous people disappeared in the US.
If they are lucky they will preserve they culture like the Jews did after being kicked out by Rome, and will come back 2000 years later, when they have more technology.
Is this a recurring pattern of people/cultures living in this region? I know of curds and other people who seem to suffer as well from a similar fate.
The guerilla wins if it does not lose. After 6 months of Genocide israel still isn’t even close to wiping Hamas. International opinion has completely shifted on israel showing the world what the Palestinians have actually been suffering from for over 75 years. Hamas is now growing in the West Bank and Lebanon, they are bigger than ever and israel is losing allies by the day because everyone realizes they are Nazis. Hamas has won in every single way.
The only way one can pretend Hamas is losing is by saying that Hamas is responsible for all the innocent civilians that israel is brutally massacaring. But Hamas is as responsible for that as the Jews which families were slaughtered when they fought back against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Wow. Are you really comparing Hamas, who want to eradicate all Jews, to the people who opposed being slaughtered by the Nazis?!
If you want to support Palestinians, say that. But Hamas and Palestinians are NOT the same.
Hamas does not want to slaughter all Jews that’s an Israeli fabrication. Hamas only targets people occupying Palestine. There are many Christians living in Gaza as well.
Even the Christians only started getting killed by israel. Because israel wants to eradicate everyone from a different group than their own, like the Nazis did
Have you read their charter? It literally says so:
First, they believe in a day of judgement that requires the eradication of all Jews:
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)"
They will do this by first destroying Israel:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it
Then they will proceed to do the same with the rest of the world:
"Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’." (Article 32)"
Hamas is literally founded with genocide in mind.
It goes on to say that they will also refuse any peace treaty, and condemn those (such as Egypt) who have made peace or attempt any peaceful resolution with Israel
That sentence does not say what you say it does whatsoever. It describes a battle with some Jews, not the eradication of all Jews. This is the actual charter of Hamas.
The evidence is very clear as well. Hamas has never attacked any Jews outside of israel because they do not hate Jews. Hamas has also killed many foreign workers in israel on Oct7. They do not care about what religion or race the people occupying them have. The just resist occupation.
Ok, but see I’m not worried about Hamas, I’m worried about the rest of the population who is being slaughtered.
Are their better off after the 7th, or they are worse but accept is better than dying passively? From their point or view, how do they feel about what will happen?
I have a friend in Gaza and she’s really suffering. I don’t ask her too much because I don’t want to make her thing of the tragedy.
A lot of people got killed by the Apartheid in South Africa during the armed resistance. A lot of people died fighting against the Nazis… Your friend was suffering far before this mass Genocide started.
Every day israel does not defeat Hamas but massacres innocent civilians trying to collect food they lose more reputation on the global stage. Israel went from nobody knowing how bad they were to being seen as Nazis in six months. 100 years of carefully crafted Zionist propaganda completely destroyed because they have gotten too arrogant and open about their crimes believing themselves invincible.
Gaza went from having absolutely no chance of a future for Palestine because of the Abraham accords to having Spain and other countris now trying to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state.
Given that:
a) Israel is military much more powerful than Palestine b) Israel has US cover
Do you think that
a) Hamas was aware of was coming to them after the 7th October, or did they underestimate it?
b) was the Palestinian people aware of what would follow, and did they accept to “pay for it”?
Sorry if my wording makes it seem too cold, or pro Hamas or anti Palestinian or whatever. I just cannot find a better wording
Hamas was aware of was coming to them after the 7th October, or did they underestimate it?
I don’t think even Hamas expected the 7 Oct attack to go this well for them. The Aljazeera doc on Oct7 shows that they were disoriented because they never expected israel to just open mid.
It is still very possible Netanyahu let it happen to give him an excuse to invade and take over Gaza. I speculate that Netanyahu expected he would be able to beat Hamas though instead of dragging it on for so long. We are now 6 months in and that
was the Palestinian people aware of what would follow, and did they accept to “pay for it”?
It was a secret operation not a well discussed plan so no. Though support for Hamas has drastically risen after the Palestinians have suffered these atrocities on the hand of israel as they refuse to be oppressed longer.
Only hindsight will give them the ability to judge whether it was worth it as we still don’t know what the result will be. If Gaza gets eradicated completely then of course they will say it was not worth. If they get their own state and the wall gets removed they will look at it differently.
-
So it didn’t quite work out how the fascist sharia rape gang of Hamas wanted, who would have thought?! Now let’s hope for a quick end to all violence in the entire region and that the fuckhead Netanyahu gets what he deserves as well.
You seem quite gleeful for a war that has already murdered well over 10,000 children in the past six months.
Whatever side you’re on, it cannot be denied that this invasion was triggered by Hamas on Oct 7. The same person you are accusing as being “gleeful” is calling for an end to all violence in the exact same post. It’s ok to criticize Hamas.
This is something I don’t understand on this community: Any time the slightest criticism is leveraged towards Hamas it is given the least charitable interpretation or reading. There is no counter to the claim, just tone policing of some sort.
On the other hand, we can say whatever the f**k we want about the great oppressor, Israel. Which by the way, don’t get me wrong: the IDF are horrible blood thirsty opportunists milking the Oct 7 attack in order to inflict maximum damage in Gaza. But if we continue to be charitable towards Hamas in perpetuity we are throwing the Palestinian people under. They cannot rely on Hamas to get them out of this. The violence has to end and we need to stop Israel at all costs from continuing this occupation.
Hi, I had a quick look on your other posts and got some insight.
You seem to believe that both sides are equally right and wrong, and want to draw conclusions based on that.
This remembers me of myself some years ago: if I read Palestinian stories, I’d get pro Palestine. If I get the same story from Israeli side, they just changed some propositions and I’d think Israel was actually right.
That’s very confusing.
Everything changed when I read this now updated article and saw this video:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/whats-the-israel-palestine-conflict-about-a-simple-guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoFjbnvkmQ0
Since seeing that I became much more on the Palestinian side.
After having seen both of the material above, how does this change your point of view?
Ps 1: there’s a 3rd documentary which impacted me a lot, but it was after I had already made my mind. Maybe you will find it relevant or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwy-Rf15UIs
Ps 2: on this topic, some people take sides because, based on what they read, they see one side is suffering injustice or not. Some people on this topic act like soccer team fans and will defend their team even when they are totally wrong. Some people are just parroting Russia/China positions for being communists, or parroting USA/Israel for being anti communists. Know who you are talking to before wasting time with the last 2 types
Thanks for your perspective.
The only side I’m on is that of the Palestinian people right now. My goal is to stop all suffering. So my main contention is with the undue support that many individuals – @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world for example – give out to Hamas because they don’t understand reality and they think it’s virtuous.
- Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. At least Fatah was willing to come to negotiations.
- Hamas has in its charter the liberation of Palestine from “the river to the sea”. They will not stop until this objective is achieved while their leaders sit in lavish palaces in Qatar and other places. If you were to ask me, TheFonz, I’m personally ok going back to the 68 partition. But reality is it’s not happening. That ship has sailed over fifty years ago. We are 100 years past the Peele commission. What are Israeli kids born today going to do about the 68 partition? Absolutely nothing.
So while Hamas keeps throwing rockets into the lion’s den thinking they will liberate Palestine while their people get crushed by bombs is incredibly sad. And people here keep cheering them on. I want a complete ceasefire and removal of all Israeli settlements.
Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. At least Fatah was willing to come to negotiations.
Does israel recognize Palestine now? Oh wait they don’t. They openly state they will do everything to prevent a Palestinian state being established. But now that Hamas has retaliated suddenly Palestine is on the fast track to get recognized.
What a weird pivot. That’s what you took from my comment? Do you think I’m here to defend Israel? At least Israel acceded authority to the PLO during the Oslo accords. Progress is made incrementally not overnight.
Conveniently ignore the part where israel openly states they will not recognize Palestine and are very actively colonizing and annexing the west bank.
“Do you condemn Hamas?” is a question designed to evade and defend Israel’s genocide.
https://medium.com/@melaniesusans/the-laziness-of-asking-do-you-condemn-hamas-3b31ac9c4768
Fonz is well fond of consistently trying to ad-hominem and slander users while he goes around defending Genocide and spreading Zionist propaganda.
I am afraid you are currently talking to a bunch of Hasbara alt accounts.
