• jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org
    23·
    5 months ago

    The cheese incident wasn’t an accident, but a dinister plot by the “bumbling”… Darth Neelix.

    Edited to fix autocorrect Dark to Darth

  • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
    163·
    5 months ago

    The Empire did nothing wrong. And it specifically didn’t cause a Tuvix. They even tried to kill Jar Jar (probably?). Janeway would def follow orders & join the good fight.

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
      3·
      5 months ago

      Hmm I need to see gungan eyes that aren’t Jar Jar’s to be sure, but that might be another piece of evidence for Jar Jar originally was intended to be Darth Plaguis.

      Edit: inconclusive. His eyes are different from other gungan eyes, but they all do have eyes that would fit the Sith eyes meme. And Boss Nass also has unique eyes vs other gungan, and his eyes look the most evil out of his, Jar Jar’s and other gungan eyes I looked at. If it is evidence, it is very weak.

      • Klear@lemmy.world
        5·
        5 months ago

        That whole “Jar Jar was supposed to be a Sith” thing entirely hinges on an assumption that George Lucas has at least a faint idea of what he was doing and his main motivation wasn’t selling toys. So you know, pretty much busted.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
          2·
          5 months ago

          He did have more planned out than they did for any of the sequels. His emotional dialogue sucked but he did create an overall coherent storyline. And Jar Jar’s actor claims that the plans for Jar Jar did change after Lucas saw how unpopular he was.

          Maybe the plan was just for Jar Jar to be force sensitive, which would explain some of the coincidences with his character. Except for the clumsiness, which doesn’t really fit with any force sensitive user. Unless it was an act.

          But, one scene in TPM doesn’t fit with him being a secret Sith: when he gets his hand stuck right before Anakin does a test fire of his pod racer. Padme was the only one to even notice and it seemed like a dumb gamble to come close to dying to give further evidence to one character that he was a bumbling idiot when they all already thought that.

          Also if Qui Gon had no trouble using the force to influence Boss Nass, why wouldn’t Jar Jar do the same? Unless leaving the Gungan city itself was suspicious and he needed an excuse to be away.

          I used to be convinced about this, but at this point I don’t think there’s any way to know unless Lucas himself comes out and says it. The evidence is too ambiguous and the change to Jar Jar’s character could have just been “move him to the background”.

          • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
            2·
            5 months ago

            Jar jar’s clumsiness could have been explained by a Jedi equivalent to drunk kung fu. His clumsiness always worked out in the end.

            • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
              1·
              5 months ago

              Yeah, he was a highly competent kind of clumsy, other than that scene I mentioned above. Which calls into question why he was kicked out of his hometown for clumsiness (assuming he was honest with that answer).

              A lightsaber duel between Jar Jar and Yoda would have been pretty cool to watch, likely much better than the brief one with Dooku. It would have been more like the fights in Clone Wars, just with a more realistic style. The duel that made it into that movie was just disappointing, Yoda just shows that he can be a lot more nimble and mobile than he seems and then Dooku decides to do something else and Yoda just allows it instead of keeping the attack pressed so he didn’t have a chance to drop the ceiling on the unconscious Jedi. They should have at least had him do that more suddenly rather than stop to announce he’s decided the duel was a draw. But I digress.

              Whatever the original plan was for Jar Jar, I resent the “fans” that had such a strongly negative emotional reaction to the character, as well as the ones that bullied the kid who played Anakin. Same with the ones who reacted like that to the actor that played Rose. Sure, I didn’t like her character very much either but it’s not the actor’s fault, it’s the writing and directing. Plus it’s just a story, you can critique the art but making it personal with those who created it is just insane.

    • remotelove@lemmy.ca
      19·
      5 months ago

      All of those actors were also pulled down by the Kazon, IMHO. They just ruined it for everyone.

      Actually though, Neelix got better once he got a little more depressed and serious. Tom Paris wasn’t bad when he wasn’t acting like a child. Chakotay was fine when he wasn’t babbling on about pseudo-native indian culture that usually ended up being borderline racist. (While I am not Native Indian, it seems like it would be insulting to have some cultural aspects twisted in the way Voyager did sometimes.)

      I still try to watch the first few seasons of Voyager, but always end up jumping past anything Kazon. Voyager gets much better when that story arc is out of the picture.

      Side note, Voyager is probably my favorite series and my criticism is just overly sharp. I really do enjoy it, but those first season are a bit rocky.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
      5·
      5 months ago

      Yes, exactly the same for me.
      Just too much stereotypical stuff going on there. Of the guys Doc & Tuvok are the least annoying & feel like ‘planned’ characters. And the latter one caused Tuvix, which was just a walking intergalactic crime on abominations, so that leaves me with the glitchy software.

      (But actually all characters at some point lean way too much into a single one of their stereotypes, like in a tabletop rpg.)
      (And yes, I also like Voyager very much :))