This…actually seems like a good use of AI? I generally think AI is being shoehorned into a lot of use cases where it doesn’t belong but this seems like a proper place to use it. It’s serving a specific and defined purpose rather than trying to handle unfiltered customer input or do overly generic tasks,
Eh, I doubt that. Bin packing is a very well-researched problem. It’s one of those nasty NP ones but we already have very good algorithms giving very good approximations in very short amounts of time the chance that throwing machine learning at the problem helps is not zero, but close to it. What that kind of approach certainly won’t get you is guarantees, those approximation algorithms can be configured to spit out solutions that are at most 1% or whatever you want worse than the optimal solution.
I doubt this actually has anything to do with Amazon’s logistics operations it’s just their marketing team wanting to hype up Amazon for AI.
Yeah, it is one of the least bad uses for it.
But then again, using literal tera-watts-hours of compute power to save on the easiest actually recyclable material known to man (cardboard), maybe that’s just me, maybe I’m too jaded, but it sounds like a pretty bad overall outcome.
It isn’t a bad deal for Amazon, tho, who is likely to save on costs, that way, since energy is still orders of magnitude cheaper than it should be[1], and cardboard is getting pricier.
if we were to account for the available supply, the demand, and the future (think sooner than later) need for transition towards new energy sources… Some that simply do not have the same potential. ↩︎
I think you’re overstating the compute power and understating the amount of cardboard Amazon uses
This seems like it has pretty powerful potential for space flight.
Being able to aggressively min max packaging materials to secure materials could be critical for reducing payload sizes on shuttles, where every single individual gram counts.
Each kg of packaging is thousands of dollars to get into orbit, so that’s really appealing.
I’d be curious to see if Amazon is also working on box packing algorithms for maximizing fitting n parcels across x delivery trucks.
IE if you have 10,00 boxes to move, what’s the fewest delivery trucks you can fit those boxes into as fast as possible too, which introduces multiple complex concepts. Both packing to maximize space usage and the order you pack it in to minimize armature travel time…
I’d put money down amazon is perfecting this algorithm right now, and has been for awhile.
This is already worked in through mathematics, it is its own mathematical field. We can optimize packaging through formulas that are very fast and accurate. No need to train a AI for that. Especially not for space flight, AI are prone to hallucinations that is not something you want anywhere near any space mission that requires precision and predictability. I believe Johannes Kepler started this field in the 1600s, it is not something new. It is definitely a complex problem, but not new and not unheard of. Amazon is not exactly inventing something new and amazing here…
AI is not prone to hallucinations, LLMs are. I doubt Amazon is building a chatbot to optimise packaging.
What do you consider to be an AI?
And do you consider any of the existing systems to be the one?When I use “AI” I’m using computer science terminology. Artificial intelligence is a subfield of CS, in that sense, any model that comes of that field is, by definition, AI.
Then it’s strange that you are separating AI and LLM, because in CS LLM is a type of artificial intelligence.
AI as a whole is not subject to the flaws of LLMs
Note that “optimizing” Amazon package can’t possibly be a very high bar to clear. Just being smart enough to package multiple items coming from the same distribution center on the same delivery route into the same box would do it… Something that other online retailers figured out decades ago but apparently somehow Amazon still hasn’t.
Used to work at an Amazon warehouse, things are a lot more complex then you seem to realize.
Care to expound? Can you explain why a small bottle of vitamins will sometimes come in a box 8 times it’s size. Filled with air bubble packing? I’ve always got the sense that box size was not at all a priority for them.
Depends on how it is fulfilled, if it comes from an Amazon warehouse directly vs directly fulfilled by a third party (if it comes in an Amazon branded box with Amazon tape it probably got fulfilled at an Amazon warehouse).
If it did get fulfilled at an Amazon warehouse, the one I worked at it goes through a process wherein it is retrieved either by a “picker” manually or via a KIVA bot filled with items (depends on how old the warehouse is, I’d be surprised if they’re not all converted to KIVA bot style by now as it’s been nearly ten years since I’ve worked there and I worked in a brand new warehouse at the time and we had the bots style)
So the picker puts it into a bin with several other items all scanned together using the ASIN number (separate Amazon barcode, longer and shorter then other barcodes) which gets loaded onto a conveyer which eventually ends up at a sorter, if it’s AFE (multi-item orders, the department I mostly worked in) it gets pushed to a certain line where it’s manually further sorted from the yellow bin, scanned again and placed into a smaller grey bin (rebin) which goes to another sorter eventually into another line where it gets placed into a wall of cubby-holes (I believe that was called induction), the cubby holes would have all the items for an order, once it’s “complete” you push it through to the other side of the cubby hole where the packers are, the packers have a screen that tells them what items are in the order, along with which box to use, they have a whole wall in front of them of different box sizes, along with a feed of the larger bubble cushin things and an automatic tape dispenser for the box side the system told the packer it needed (it didn’t work a lot of the time so there were also buttons to select a specific box size of tape).
After all that the packer pushes it forward into another conveyer belt, where it is weighed automatically to hopefully ensure it is correct, if it is close enough to the correct weight, it goes out to shipping. (If not, it gets kicked out for problem solvers to figure out what’s wrong with it, that was my main job).
Single item pack is less complex slightly for obvious reasons (don’t have to stage the items together) but is the same basic idea.
Now to answer the questions specifically, why a small bottle of vitamins ends up in a large box, either they ran out of the correct box needed or it was just an incompetent worker who doesn’t care what box they use regardless of what the system tells them they should use. Technically the system could kick it out, but that’s a lot of extra time, effort and a wasted box.
Interesting. Thanks. I’m guessing that Amazon maybe isn’t great at incentivizing workers to care. If the last step for a single item is a human putting it into a box, I could see it being easier to have a stack of big boxes that one would just default to rather than paying attention to size recommendations.
I only lasted 6 months, if that’s any indication lol.
It was a really cool job, but you can’t have your phone while working (have to literally leave it outside in a locker, there are metal detractors you walk through to get in and out), the breaks are way too short (there were times more then half my break was spent just walking from my area to the break room when I did pick), and to top it off, it was a 4/10 shift (overnights for me) and frequently they would tell us on the last day right before midnight that we had to work another full 10 hour day tomorrow.
After several months of 5/12s during “peak” seasons (nov - march) I had enough.
